The s.c. "scholars" studying the Cathars and Albigenses and giving 'em the certificate of "gnostics" are openly harlots of Rome. They are terryfied with the idea that only a spiritual, and I even don't mean organizational/physical pastor-to-pastor - succession from the first Christians to the today last honest Independent Baptists could have existed, a fact which would make explode the Whore of Rome whose cup they love so much to drink from. From the first word to the last one they write in order to continually slander the memory of these Christian martyrs, are only the spiritual wicked money they pay in order to get their "fame & money" on the stage of this desperate world.
The prostitution of the Intellectual Quisling of Rome today is complete and full witnessing the prophecy of Revelation and the same simple genuine words of Christ about the human condition. A great part of the Protestant/Reformed/Reformed Baptists 'scholar' today are exactly like that young rich men, who fearing to lose their wealth (curricula in university, invitations in the upper rooms of broadly advertised conferences, contracts for seminaries, interview in the media, awards from the corrupted elite of this world, advancing in the career, proud, narcissism, intellectual arrogance, etc.) they deny to bear their cross, the cross of accepting every kind of consequences in their 'honorable' academic careers, the consequences of losing the friendship of many false friends and losing the advantages of big money from contracts and best sellers, very useful to boast the importance of the proper person in this material world.
This cross is the price to pay to defend the ones who cannot no more defend themselves.
Really, Protestantism and Reformation ARE COMPLETELY DEAD.
Baptist Successionism is an embarrassment to Baptistshttp://youtu.be/Kr0R1y672oE
Sacraments are not works...they are the means through which Gods grace flows to us. The Trail of Blood and the ideas that it represents....i.e. Baptist successionism are repudiated by any serious historical inquiry into the topic. I am always amused when Baptists grab onto Tertulian. He was a heretical Donnatist. He believed in sacramental regeneration by baptism but thought it should be delayed until the folly of youth was over because the same sins could not be forgiven over and over.
How sad I am to hear that McGoldrick's book is out of print! It really is good. The thing that makes Baptist Successionism work (I was raised in it) is to instill in people an inherent distrust of reputable scholarship [MY NOTE - disgusting, you throw s*** on the defenseless memory of millions of murdered Christians and you care of your 'reputable' scholarship of fake Prostestant, Catholic intellecuta Mercenaries]. So nowadays it's a form of anti-intellectualism [MY NOTE - HA! this guy is an Intellectualist Origen guys! Salvation through Intellect, damn Gnostic!]. As you say, it takes five minutes of checking historical resources to see Baptist Successionist claims do not hold water [MY NOTE - like you would check the Nazi sources to find the truth of Jews during WWII, disgusting....]. That's why they must teach their followers to be hyper-critical of reputable sources [MY NOTE - "reputable sources" = the Catholic assassins of theo.
@MrsShirotora Wow, and I thought my Baptist friends who converted to Catholicism made a big jump. :]
The Albegensians beliefs were Gnostic in many ways....dualism, rigid legalism, non-trinitarian view of Christ ect. To try to make them appear as some sort of early "Baptist" does not do the Baptist tradition any favor.. As a Baptist I was taught that if "I went forward and recieved Christ", if" I asked Jesus into my heart" if I raised my hand and prayed the sinners prayer...then all my sins were forgiven...past present and future. What does the Bible say? continued.
You are an sacriligous and abusive jerk Greg. Repentence is in order. You routinely misrepresent others beliefs. When I became a Baptist, I was told what works to do to have my sins forgiven- if I prayed the sinners prayer, if I"went forward and asked Jesus into my heart I was forgiven of all sins, past present and future. Historic Christians read the Bible and understand "If you confess your sins He is faithful and just to forgive our sins." and "If you eat my body I will abide in you."
I learned in the Dictionary of Baptists in America that the Baptist Successionist view, aka Landmarkism, was developed in the nineteenth century debates among American Protestant denominations as a way to prove a superior origin, which should thus bolster their claims to truth. Lutherans descend from Luther; Reformed from Calvin; Methodists from Wesley; but Baptists from Christ (having been baptized by John the Baptist). A form among British Baptists too, but can't elaborate on their connection.
@ziptone No and yes, respectively. However, as bizarre and fallacious as it was, it did instill in me at a young age that historical authenticity is important, that Christianity ought to be what was believed by the apostles and the first generations of Christians, so when I discovered what that really was, I had to submit myself to it. I'm Eastern Orthodox now.
I am so sorry to have offended in some way. But that's no reason for you to lie about the Albgenses and call their non-Romanist belief system "gnostic". Tell me, do you call a human man "Holy Father"? Do you eat a cookie "Jesus" and then flush him 22 hours later? Do you pray to dead people and refer to them as "saints" because a human committee declared them to be so? Do you believe you are saved through "sacrements"? The Albigenses didn't and neither do I.
bbbfohio...you spew your nonsense where every you go. And you block anyone who doesnt follow your cultic beliefs. Tell me are the gnostic beliefs of the Albingenses "peripheral" in nature? You make the accusation of the Catholic Church murdering tens of millions of non -Catholics. For remedial listening in church history I recommend BBCs....The Myth of the Inquisition [MY NOTE - BBC, a nest of Catholics and pedophiles?]. It carefuly documents the records of the Spanish Inquisition and concludes a few thousand died.
What kind of Christian can believe that anyway? Well... an ignorant one...of the Bible and history, like the author if this video He thinks because he went on to study in "higher" schools of learning, he WOULD HAVE heard of this. He is a novice. I have dealt with Seminarians for a long time and am astounded at what they DON'T KNOW and never heard of. I know quite a few PhDs who are no different.
You are a devil-possessed, dishonest apostate, prairie dog. Repentance is in order. You routinely misrepresent Baptist beliefs. After you eat your "jesus", you CRAP him. It's a scientific FACT. Cry about it. Wail and gnash your teeth, you blasphemous little devil. But the "jesus" cookie you eat comes out your anal canal as CRAP and you FLUSH your "jesus". Deal with it.
Wow...as I look at this post you made yesterday, all I can say it that you need to stick to one topic. You throw a large number of false accusations against the wall. Do you expect a rational response to so much "stuff" in a 500 word response? That is unreasonable. The Albegensians were dualistic...meaning they beleived the bad force (Satan) was co equal in power with the Good force (God) They were non-trinitarian, they believed sins could only be forgiven once through a kind of sacrment.
Greg, you said you were sorry for offending me on an earlier post. You said you were sorry if you "offended me in any way." How can I take your apology seriously when you behave like this? You are not offending me, you are showing your rebellion against the word of God and the Gospel. You even are an offense to civil discourse and neighborly behavior. Language and fits of rage like you have make you not only a bad Christian, but a bad citizen.Cleary not the kind of behavior the Lord wants
@jdchitty He was a closet Prebyterian--that explains his MOTIVE for writing a book that does Rome a favor in helping deceive others with this historical revisionism.
* * *JESUITS AND PRESBYTERIAN TODAY:
James McGoldrick the most famous opponent to Baptist Successionism:
About James McGoldrickJames Edward McGoldrick is professor of church history at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. He received his PhD from West Virginia University, and has written numerous books, including Luther’s English Connection, Baptist Successionism, and God’s Renaissance Man: The Life and Work of Abraham Kuyper.
Other on Presbyterian and Jesuits:
[damn hypocrites, solidarity with the "underrepresented"??? And what were the Cathars on whom you spit your Catholic venom? Weren't they "underrepresented"?? You, hypocrites, you love the poor masses because you can easily manipulate 'em to make them twofold children of Hell than you]